Posts by Anders Andersen

11

There's TrueBlood and Then There's TrueMod

by Hadriel in

just want to take a moment and mention how exceptional the moderator is here @simon.

been on many many forums and you'll be pressed to find a more fair person.

he creates a safe environment where the chicanery is a minimum.

Anders Andersen

@Simon, Thanks for running this forum!

@Hadriel, well said.

121

Hey ya'll! My first post. Please help. In need of advice/comfort.

by Stepford Wife in

jw
friends

hey ya'll!

i have been lurking for years on this site and others but never had the courage to post anything.

actually i was afraid of posting on an apostate site in the event i was wrong.

Anders Andersen

@StepfordWife,

Welcome. Hang in there!

You can't be DFed for not reporting hours.

You can't be DFed for whatever reason if there is only 1 witness (e.g. your husband) against you, and you an refuse to answer any question.

Please keep in mind that none of these people have any auhority , and they have no power over you. They cannot make you talk if you don't want to.

You can flatout refuses to talk to them or meet with them if you wish. You don't have to play the game by their rules.

You don't have to play their game at all.

These people have just as much authority over you as any stranger passing by in traffic: none.

In my case, my wife told the elders I am now an atheist. I politely refused their request to meet. There is nothing they can do until at least 1 other witness to my current beliefs comes forward.

Some friends and family sort of shun me anyway; unfortunately that's how they're wired to think and act.

Anyway, my main point is: you are in charge of you life. You don't owe anyone an explanation (except maybe your husband), and nobody holds any authority over you.

Best wishes!

90

Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life

by shadow in

disclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.

yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.

i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.

Anders Andersen

Cofty, I agree.

We don't even know where exactly we should place the border between 'life' and 'not life'.

There is no clear boundary chemical processes without any of the characteristics of life, and chemical processes displaying all (or most) characteristics of life.

Are viruses life, or not?
Are prions life, or not?
Are viroids life, or not?

Are viroids really too complicated to come to existence from mere chemical reactions?

Nature doesn't conform to the labels humans invent.

And those not understanding evolution often think of life as mammals and other animals (I know I did).

Learning about mere collections of molecules having characteristics of being alive (such as the 3 examples mentioned above) sure made an impression on me...

90

Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life

by shadow in

disclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.

yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.

i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.

Anders Andersen

A complex result can be produced by very few and simple processes.

Are snowflakes geometries complex and do they look designed? Yes.

Are their geometries formed by a simple process? Yes .

Are they all designed? No.

But still, all the analogies and word games in the world change nothing about the incredible huge mountains of evidence for evolution, there for those who just care to be honest enough to look.

And while I really tried to find any evidence for creation in order to not have my easy life turned upside down, I found none.

Please show me evidence of creation other than 'it's all very complicated, so God must have done it'

And when that evidence is presented, we can compare it to the evidence for evolution.

8

Heliocentric Hole #1: Start of the Universe

by Coded Logic in

adjective.

having or representing the sun as the center, as in the accepted astronomical model of the solar system.. .

the idea that the earth orbits the sun is not right because we don't know how the big bang happened.

Anders Andersen

Yes and astronomers belief in dark magic and that its every were in the universe well that is just stupid becoz it is light during the day how could that be with dark magic every were.

Also with the large hardon collider they are looking for the 'God Testicle' or Highs Boner well they ain't haven't found d*ck yet

So they know nothing I dunt trust them so helicopter egocentric model clearly evidently wrong beyont dout.

(All of the above is written with greatest respect to those who actually do know how to properly debate whatever side of a discussion)

90

Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life

by shadow in

disclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.

yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.

i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.

Anders Andersen

The process of the life starting event should somehow be still present and functioning in present day life

Unless of course the circumstances on earth (like composition of the atmosphere) have changed so much that those original processes do not function anymore.

And would your position change when we do find or replicate these processes? Or would you then claim that they are not representative and/or created by intelligent life?

And please, for the honest creationists out there: for your own sake try to really study and understand how evolution works and what evidence there is supporting it, without instantly rejecting everything you don't like as the Borg taught you to do.

If you base you knowledge on WT/creationist explanations of evolution, you're being robbed of real knowledge.

The fact that there is life proves that somehow life has always been, or life started, whether we understand how, or not.

Evolution has taken place with either life created by God (the official view of >90% of all Christian churches), or with life that was the result of unguided chemical processes.

Saying evolution didn't happen because we don't know how life started is like saying childbirth is not an existing process because we don't know how conception works and how the baby gets in there in the first place.

We are in New York. All evidence shows we walked there from L.A.

We don't remember why we left L.A, exactly what the circumstances were when we left, and whether we travelled the first miles by train, bus, car or foot.

Does that invalidate all evidence for the rest if the journey?

Does it mean that we must have been teleported to New York by aliens because we don't know how the journey started?

Please, for your own sake, study the facts. It doesn't mean that you need to reject God as the creator of life.

The only reasons to reject evolution I know is either not understanding the process of evolution and the enormous amount of evidence supporting it (as was the case with me), or being mentally blind because of precious beliefs.

BTW simple question, closely related to the evolution/creation discussion but much easier to answer: since when do humans exist on earth? Why? What evidence can you present to support your answer?

90

Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life

by shadow in

disclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.

yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.

i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.

Anders Andersen

BTW, regardless of everyone's position on the subject, I just love to be able to discuss this topic freely (as long as personal attacks and insults are left behind)

I can say whatever I want without fear of being shunned.

I love being out of the Borg :-D

90

Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life

by shadow in

disclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.

yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.

i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.

Anders Andersen

Do I pretend to understand this creator and how the creator originated? Not at all and why should humans expect to? What have humans discovered about our place in the universe? We can't even begin to comprehend the visible universe.

I'm glad you have this point of view.

Do you agree then, that given the fact that currently neither creationists nor those who accept the evidence for evoltution have a decent understanding of how life began, it's fair to not use that argument against the other side?

So, not understanding where God came from does not invalidate any evidence for His existence, and the fact that abiogenese is not currently understood is no evidence against evolution.

And in that case, please present evidence against evolution other than 'we don't know how life started'.

And maybe start presenting some evidence that support creation?

90

Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life

by shadow in

disclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.

yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.

i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.

Anders Andersen

For those saying that evolution cannot have happened because we don't know how life started:

Suppose we find a dead body with multiple bullet holes and knife wounds in a room sealed shut from the inside, and no weapons are found anywhere.

Should we conclude this person was not killed or is not currently dead just because we can't explain yet where the weapons are, or who did it, or how the room was locked from the inside?

Should we rejects all the facts that show us how life evolved , just because we don't know (yet) how it started?

Should we reject the facts for the existence of gravity, because we don't know how/why gravity works?

And if you can't accept that organic life (which is basically a collection of self-replicating molecules) came from non-replicating molecules, and argue that it can't be true because we don't exactly know how it happened, please explain to us the mechanism by which non-organic life (e.g. God) started.

Because if you can't explain how non-organic life started, all that follows (e.g. Bible, religion) cannot be true either...

So, my current position is:

Start of spiritual life: Please provide evidence of existence first
Start of organic life: some ideas, nothing conclusive yet...
Evolution of life: as much evidence as there is for the existence of gravity. Fact.

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Anders Andersen

Oh and for everyone looking to join a new group of any kind, please make sure they don't score too high on the checklist for high-demands/high-control groups (cults):

http://www.icsahome.com/articles/characteristics

Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine whether there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine whether a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.
The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and its members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members’ participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before they joined the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and to radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before they joined the group.
The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
The group is preoccupied with making money.
Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.